Get Happy, Be Happy, Stay Happy

i will have to watch this to give a full reply, but what is doing the experiencing of this for her is left unaddressed in the bit you quoted…. and that is the self which is everywhere connected….

great subject, worthy of a sub-blog

thanks

watched it here in the singapore airport. i would say that her experience came from observing from the field, within which the left and right hemisphere are condensed.

but that could be wrong…. i need to think about this a lot more, this equating the mystic with right hemisphere…. either way, there are implications for “something more”…

very interesting

Hi gregory! I’m standing by for your comments…

BTW, I’ve been to Singapore and really enjoyed it.

this has occupied my mind for a couple of days now, while in the company of mata amritanandamayi, http://www.amritapuri.org as she tours through singapore and malaysia

for reference, i will call her enlightened, and watching her give darshan non-stop from 7 in the evening until 10:15 this morning to about 12,000+ people, we can at least say that she is extraordinary

there is no traditional understanding of enlightenment in relation to scientific understanding of the body/mind, which is a pretty recent set of concepts when compared with the traditional

“western” science, and neuroscience, seems to be halted at the point of thinking consciousness comes from meat, chemistry, (a nice blog, http://www.theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php illustrates this pov) and the “eastern” thing has a model based on layers of increasing subtlety and feel that the body is a condensation of consciousness

the first mystic to attempt connecting science and mysticism that i know of was maharishi mahesh yogi, and a lot of fruitful research has come from other parties since then… it seems, for example the the brain grows a bit in meditators, that the right hemisphere functions increase via meditation, that decisions are made before the mind is aware of them, stuff like that…

as far as i can see, enlightenment is the integration of the two brain hemispheres into one coherent unit, undifferentiated,… at stages along the way a particular hemisphere may dominate

my opinion of jill bolte taylor’s talk at ted is that she saw what she knew, that there are two hemispheres, but she had no concept of another possibility, that it is the self which is the experiencer, through the vehicle of the mind/body, and probably independently as well, (though only mystics would agree with the latter) and that while all this medical stuff was going on, she was witnessing from a “place” that is “beyond” mind/body, or more subtle, or prior to…

i liked her passion, and wish to communicate a higher reality, and to spread peace, suggesting a motivation derived from seeing a bigger picture, and whether scientists are right, or mystics are right, or both, the “something more” is still in the process of becoming

Very interesting perspective, as usual!

Enlightenment as integration of two brain hemispheres. And perhaps even more pieces than that to integrate. Here’s a site that approaches this topic from the point of view of integrating the triune brain, and experiencing peak states of consciousness.

http://www.peakstates.com/

Maybe start with the pages linked from Understanding Peak States (see links on the left).

like peak states themselves, which come and go and are ultimately unfulfilling, the site http://www.peakstates.com, while interesting, is something of an example of what happens to consciousness when it is looked at by scientists

we are still finding out what the questions should be, i think, but to me this is one of the most interesting areas of formal (”scientific”) human inquiry …. but this inquiry, using only mind, has been at the basis of all the “eastern” spiritual systems …. pulling the two together, or at least seeing the common denominators is about as easy currently as asking religion members to see the common denominators of all religions, it is threatening

the threatening thing is itself a curious manifestation of identity, and our addiction to what props it up… who are we if we drop our identity/

There is only “science” neither Western nor Eastern - let’s not cast aspersions…

Consciousness is still a mystery. The origin of life is still a mystery. I’m very glad that science is looking at these things too!

A sense of “identity” is another intriguing area. Humans can offer various explanations, such as those found in Eastern spiritual systems, but to me it boils down to having to hold those explanations by faith.

I would say that if we drop our sense of self or identity — a sense that comes from the neocortex — we’d be who we were before the neocortex and consciousness developed. Apparently, this “self” doesn’t like to be messed with and wants to stay intact and in control. And, yes, a lot of times we do end up suffering because of it (the tyranny of the thinking mind). But that’s where we are in human development.

citizen deux,

i just read a book call “the geography of thought” which is about the differences in eastern and western minds…. and science, as much as we would like to think it is universal, is clearly the result of western mind, in the questions it asks, in its methodology, in the questions it doesn’t ask, …. in many ways it is applied western religion, the whole christian thing than god is separate from “his” creation… in the east knowledge has a completely different meaning, in that it includes the knower

i know what you mean, but it is valuable to understand the limits of science,

lana, i would say that the neocortex comes from the sense of self…

gregory,
Right, it can be argued both ways. Science can provide some answers about how our brains work. But it’s still a big puzzle. The missing pieces, which most scientists who work in this arena acknowledge, include consciousness. As long as it’s a mystery, we are free to apply any explanation we want.

Obviously there are big differences between Western and Eastern approaches to the Big Questions About Life. I’m more comfortable with some Western approaches, but I don’t know if they’ll lead to truth or not.

http://you-unplugged.com/blog/2007/07/08/still-trying-to-answer-the-million-dollar-question/

Is the following what you believe?

3.6 Consciousness as Cause. Pure Consciousness as the fundamental stuff of reality out of which the physical world is generated or expressed. It is the explanation claimed or typified by certain philosophical and quasi-theological systems, Eastern religions, mystic religions, and cosmic consciousness devotees, and by some who accept the actuality of paranormal phenomena. For example, Buddhism and Rigpa in Tibetan Buddhism (omniscience or enlightenment without limit). Even some physicists ponder the pre-existence of mind.

For more perspectives on this fascinating subject, see:

Are Parts of Human Experience Beyond Scientific Understanding?

http://www.pbs.org/kcet/closertotruth/join/index.html

And this:

Is Consciousness Definable? Four brain scientists and four different answers

http://www.pbs.org/kcet/closertotruth/explore/show_12.html

and, what is “knowing” anyway? we say science is a means of knowledge, but what does it mean to know something? and is there any relationship between “knowing” and “what is”? and who is the knower? am i separate from what i know? am i separate from the imeptus to know?

it is all such a curious thing, and it is very hard for me to be interested in people who don’t care about the mystery of it all? living in the mystery of not knowing is such a pleasurable state.

thanks for the links…. and yes, consciousness as cause is how it seems to me, consciousness as a synonym for existence, prior to manifestation of matter, of thought, of individuality… the idea that creation has subtle and gross aspects, matter as condensation of consciousness… blah blah blah… the cool thing is being in the self while experience is going on

nice topic, not to be understood so much as to be opened towards

enjoy, your interests are interesting to me

What she found is something I found in meditation, and her description is spot on- the expansion, euphoria, unity, the sense of having to be put back in a 3d body. It’s more common than you would think, and you really know that you have found your own simple best nature when it happens. Basically, it’s the good feeling of being alive dropped all the way to the bottom.
If you don’t mind, I will drag up some examples from literature and paste them up.

Hi HHH,
What kind of meditation do you practice?

Sure, drag and paste away!

Well, you know what, I don’t know what I am doing splurging my inner experiences all over the web for everyone and his dog. It was just inner attention and deep breathing, really. I don’t have a regular practice anyway, since I realised that the teacher and his followers talked a lot of old gibberish, I got a bit frustrated and went off it all. I don’t know what’s wrong with people, really- fiddling with your brain and inducing bliss seems to turn a lot of people stupid at the same time.

I don’t know about the legality of pasting bits of lit. on your blog, after I’ve gone and said I would.
However, ‘The Varieties of Religious Experience’ has plenty of examples, and is easily found on the web.

I will be looking at the peak states site, as it seems to have a lot of things that I would agree with, though I’m feel dubious as to why they would have a pyramid as their logo.

HHH makes me smile for some reason… and, yeah, that pyramid is a sure giveaway

I see a “triangle”

So, what does using a pyramid indicate?

(HHH makes me smile too.)

Well, with the shading it looks like a cone.
Otherwise it would be a cunning freemason mind control gig.
Or maybe they just gave $50 to a designer and said ‘do us something simple’.

Probably a do-it-yourself design.

In any case, it’s a very interesting site! I really like this index: An Index of Peak States with Their Probabilities of Occurrence
http://www.peakstates.com/states.html

the list is obviously incomplete, where is the peak state that happens when one finds ben and jerry’s cherry garcia both available AND on sale? or its opposite, when cherry garcia is out of stock?

Oh, yeah! I have all kinds of chocolate states.

Well, they’ve got all these states pinned into a case like butterflies.
It’s interesting, it’s very descriptive too, but I’m sure it’s a new twist on a very old and thouroughly investigated area of research. Who knows, maybe the library of Alexandria had shelves full of stuff like that. I read the Bob Monroe stuff, and he and his institute had been documenting different states too- what’s the betting there is a crossover point somewhere. I did notice that the guy who took over the Monroe institute worked in intelligence. Does this peak state institute also have someone trained in killing, assassination, deceit, manipulation, control etc. on it’s staff?
At least they don’t go on about disembodied masters.
Following this,
http://www.peakstates.com/model.html
Says that they have a model of how we are shocked away from our blissful birthright. Well, just like we have hospitals for healing, we also have biowarfare labs for killing. So someone somewhere has the manual of how to deprive people of natural wisdom.
Getting in touch with my inner evil genius, I can think of all sorts fo possibilites for using that manual. In fact, when I go shopping and wandering around the town later I’m probably going to see the results of the implementation of that manual, or something like it, all around me.

They are pretty confident, these peakstates people, that regression is a reliable way to detirmine how a sperm cell experiences life. How do they come to think it is so reliable?
Also, if there is such a strong biological aspect to these states, does that leave the possibility that some people cannot have them due to genetic factors, and not developemental?

Maybe I should ask them.
Lana, are you in touch with these people?

I know very little about the Monroe Institute, but it strikes me as too out-there.

“A manual of how to deprive people of natural wisdom.” You’re probably right. And most likely there are several of them from various sources. In fact, we’re immersed in various forms of manipulation 24/7 Some are worse than others, of course.

I have the same questions about the reliability of the regression techniques. They must have their research documented — maybe it’s in their books and training materials.

No, I’m not in touch with them. I learned about Grant from Gary Craig’s EFT site. Personally, the idea of doing regression stuff doesn’t appeal to me at all — even if it is effective. Seems too scary.

You’re wondering about the possibility that some people can’t have peak states due to genetic factors. I’d like to hear their answer as well. I know that some things are set in stone; others are based on the environment. Epigenetics tells us that the door is open for more than we realize.

Are you familiar with Spiral Dynamics and the work of Clare Graves? I think SD has the best explanation for understanding human development.

http://spiraldynamics.org

Graves suggested that there may be those who have “broken brains” and are not able to change due to malnourishment, abuse, trauma, brain damage, accident, etc.

I also like the ideas behind the Human Givens Approach. Another interesting site to explore!

http://www.hgi.org.uk/

Well, I’m not saying the Monroe is a brainwash institute, or that the peakstates band are malevolent, just that there are reasons for skepticism and caution.

Epigenetics, as I understand it, is basically the relatively new area of research into gene activation and de-activation, and that this can be a hereditary factor. There are sites out there on it, and it seems quite advanced. As I understand it, an envirinmental facor may switch off a gene, and that gene, when it is passed on to offspring, remains switched off in the new generation.

Basis of a curse?
‘And with my last breath I curse thee and thy offspring…blah…’
I feel some pseudoscience coming on.

Yep. That’s where I live — in the State of Skepticism.

Epigenetics has been around for awhile, but it’s just now gaining steam. If I’m understanding the following correctly, one of the most interesting aspects is that genes don’t always remain switched off in the new generation. We can stop the curse!

“Q: If environmental factors can influence the gene expression in offspring, can that process be reversed or altered by other factors (diet, drugs, gene therapy, etc.) after the offspring are born?
Vladimir Sanchez, San Francisco, California

A: We have shown that during early fetal development, maternal nutrient supplements of methyl-donating substances (folic acid, choline, vitamin B12, and betaine) or genistein, found in soy products, can counteract the reduction in DNA methylation caused by BPA. Nevertheless, we have not yet tested if exposure to these nutrient supplements can reverse the negative effects of BPA in adulthood.

Weaver et al. (Nat. Neurosci. 7: 847-854, 2004) at McGill University, however, have shown recently that maternal nurturing behavior can stably alter the epigenotype in rat pups soon after birth. Moreover, these epigenetic changes are reversible in adulthood following methionine supplementation or treatment with histone deacetylase (HDAC) inhibitors (Weaver et al. Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA 103: 3480-3485, 2006).

Thus, data supporting the reversal of environmentally induced epigenetic changes via dietary supplementation or pharmaceutical therapy in adulthood is mounting.”

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/sciencenow/3411/02-ask.html

More cool stuff at:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/sciencenow/3411/02.html

Aha! I’m ahead of you, I’ve seen that stuff already!

Yum Yum BPA. You know, when the Summer sun beats down on me, I just love to reach for a nice plastic bottle of chemical tasting water. Yum Yum.

Funnily enough, there is a website sponsored by the plastic industry that says there are no reported health issues from BPA in humans.

So that bitter, plasticky, and often quite strong taste in bottled water is just an aesthetics issue, n-o-o-o-thing to worry about, just put some sugar and other crud in there and everything will be fine. And I’m Johnny no-balls.

Well of course some guys are having, um, some problems:

http://tinyurl.com/56fa6m

By the way (rude of me not to answer), no I’m not familiar with spiral dynamics or Clare Graves, or the human givens.

If you’re interested in human development and understanding the context for the varying levels of human thought and behavior (especially those we have now), I highly recommend studying Spiral Dynamics.

If you’re interested in learning about a fairly new, systematic approach to understanding and solving psychological problems, check out the Human Givens approach.

Both of these are grounded in scientific study and research. I’ve found these systems and approaches extremely helpful for getting my arms around some of the biggest issues of our time. Not that I understand everything, of course, but now I have a basic framework for hanging the millions of pieces of the puzzle (to me).

Well, I had a look at some of Clare Graves material, and it was kind of a more involved hierarchy of needs with a a few fancy diagrams. Phew, looks a bit complex to me. I don’t know how it helps people.

You’re right, it is fairly complex — because humans are complex. I believe that more we understand about ourselves and our world, the easier it becomes to create the world we want.

The Spiral Dynamic site says it best: “SD will help you gain a greater understanding of how people, organizations and cultures function from the inside out—and will empower you to help them work, learn, and live better.”

And this:

“People think in different ways. A brother and sister, husband and wife, manager and employee, corporation and client company might have very different world views and values. People in adjoining cubicles or families living right next door to each other sometimes don’t seem to be inhabiting the same neighborhood. Colleagues in an organization have wide ranging ideas about vision, mission, and purpose. Countries sharing one planet often seem to be in totally different worlds with their policies. Why?

Spiral Dynamics® is a way of thinking about these complexities of human existence and bringing some order and predictability to the apparent chaos of human affairs. It provides a framework for tracking the evolution of worldviews and a scaffold on which to stand while analyzing situations and planning the most appropriate actions. Sometimes called levels of psychological existence theory, this work lays out a pattern of human differences and a trajectory for change. It addresses why we have unique perspectives on living, and how our own senses of what ‘the real world’ is like can vary. More than that, SD offers concrete tools for communicating, managing, organizing, and learning to fit who people are and who they are on the road to becoming what they will be next.”

I understand the basic concepts, but I need to learn much, much more.

The world will continue to evolve one way or another. The complexities will continue to deepen. We need the understanding and the tools to direct our evolution toward global well-being. For me, SD seems like a great place to start.

spiral dynamics is a polite metaphor describing the inescapable fact that some people are more conscious than others

it gives some parameters that suggest how these differences might look

ken wilber’s version perhaps could be said to extend the metaphor, and explicitly includes the inner, or spiritual, as well as the emotional

Why do you call Spiral Dynamics a “polite metaphor” for different levels consciousness? That’s exactly what SD itself says it is.

Let me attempt to answer my own question “Consciousness” has come to mean many things, and some meanings carry certain baggage. Also, having “levels” of consciousness implies that the “higher” levels are better than the lower ones (and usually they are, because the change in thinking and behavior came about to solve problems). And that the people occupying the higher levels are “better” than those in the lower levels. But once you understand the spiral nature of development and what drives the development, there’s no need for feelings of superiority. (gregory: I’m not saying anything about where you’re coming from, because I don’t know. I’m just commenting on what I see happening in some groups.)

SD provides a way to more clearly see the progression or development of humans, from the earliest primitive thinking and being, to where we are today. And where the human race is today consists of varying levels of thinking and being (even mixtures within the individual).

Ken Wilber applies SD (in part) to spirituality. However — and this is huge distinction that most don’t understand — SD is a model that can be applied to any arena. A lot of people are first exposed to Spiral Dynamics through Wilber and his theory of everything, and they think the two are the same thing. Far from it.

Maybe you’ve seen this info, but for the benefit of those who haven’t, here’s how one of the founders of Spiral Dynamics explains it:

http://www.spiraldynamics.org/faq_integral.htm

Lana, you say you have never experienced left brain consciousness like this. I find that a bit hard to believe. There must be some decent teacher/retreat/whatever that you can go to that won’t rip you off/molest/brainwash you.
Lana, what is your body connecting to your environment? Do you mean a sense of harmony and present awareness?

The left brain consciousness I’m referring to is the pure consciousness of the left hemisphere that Jill describes. I have never felt merged or at one with my environment. I’m able to create the “flow” experience, but that’s about it.

About my body connecting to my environment: Through all of our senses, we take in massive amounts of information from the environment. There is only so much that our brains can process and bring into conscious awareness. But a lot of the information still gets registered subconsciously, and some people, like me, are profoundly affected somatically. My body knows all kinds of things my conscious brain doesn’t.

Some feelings and body postures are pretty obvious once I tune in and notice. When they’re sudden and strong, I try to figure out what’s going on. Sometimes I have no clue what it is. I’ll say more about this later…

you two got your left and right mixed up there for a moment… and my premise was that ms. taylor was experiencing from the self, “beyond”, or “prior” to the division of “left” and “right”

the thing about superiority above, i definitely say higher is better than lower, (though that is impolite in certain (lower) circles), it is not even a question, but as one is higher, compassion, acceptance, heart, all grow, and the sense of superiority disappears in unity. it is a qualitatively different state, produces a different life, and is the hope of the world, in my humble opinion

is that eckhardt/oprah thing really treacly? i haven’t watched it, but i did see this online…http://reason.com/blog/show/125934.html which pretty much tells you where christians are at, they seem to be starting to feel marginalized… thank god

Oops. I always have problems knowing left from right

Amen, brother!

By the way, HHH, that blog post and video represents a perfect opportunity for the Spiral Dynamics model to help people understand each other. I love what Jesse Walker (I wonder if we’re related) says in conclusion: “God bless the Internet: bringing mutually incomprehending tribes together since 1969.”

It was I who started on the left. I meant right.

One thing that I haven’t really looked into is why we have a divided brain in the first place.

Why has nature made it so that we can get so wildly off kilter?

Yeah, our brain structure is crazy! It’s a great example of blind nature. It only cares about survival.

HHH (his holiest of holies?) i also was wondering about the split brain thing, when i saw that physical brain ms. taylor was holding in the video…. i think about it as a whole thing, but the one she had was as if hinged, and the corpus callosum almost an after-thought…

and then, as my mind is wont to do, seeing matter as a descendant of consciousness, in progressively denser ways, i understood it in terms of the “descent” from unity into duality, in so far as mind is concerned, mind being a comparison machine, hot is hot relative to cold, etc (like words have no definition except in terms of other words) so of course the brain is like this..

and i don’t know if it matters, which came first, consciousness or the meat… in the ultimate sense, they are each, each other…

Interesting concept — the descent from unity into duality.

Do you ever ask why “consciousness” becomes matter? What’s the point?

Maybe there’s a Web site that explains your understanding?

i don’t think of it as consciousness becoming matter, with a why in front of it, to me it just seems to be the range of existence, without independent origination… it goes from what we call matter, to what we call spirit, no gaps, and no essential difference between one and the other

as for a website, we have one here, or could start another!

I can understand the range of existence. But I still want to know who, what, when, where, why and how. Don’t you?

Where was I ?
Yes, the corpus collosum, women get to have a bigger one, apparently.
That’s right, we’re on dial up and Lana is on broadband.
I have read, apparently, that cutting the corpus collosum results in the two hemispheres still functioning, but that it is similar to having two people in one. Not from the most reliable author though, so I may check up on that.

I think that seeing matter as a descendant of consciousness is a way of seeing that comes from the simplest of lifes experiences such as- when you close your eyes, much of matter disappears, but there is still consciousness, or awareness.
As we can make the entire universe disappear just by closing our eyes, what are we afraid of if we are afraid of death?
I suppose that it is the organism that produces all the fear as it fights to fulfill it’s own potentials, and evolve, yet on the inside in inner space, there is no organism- or that’s how it seems. Have I missed something?
Shut off more senses and what have you got left?

Oddly, it seems that not having the visual world available, doesn’t preclude having an intellectual understanding of it- as evidenced by the work of the occasional blind scientist. How that works, I have no idea. Physical science is one area where visualisation is all important. How you visualise the physical world, when you have no visual data to base your thoughts on, I don’t know. Einstein is said to have worked on relativity by imagining himself riding a beam of light (if I have that right).
What happens if you have never seen a beam of light, or anyone riding on anything? I guess the areas of the brain involved in vision and spacial awareness are still there even if the visual input is absent.

Is it possible to have no sensory input at all, and still be alive?

Why does consciousness become matter? The best I can come up with is that it is a matter (no pun) of ineffable will, and that the question why disappears as one partakes of it.

Erm. That may not have anything to do with getting happy and staying happy. Is there a place I can chew the fat over this?
Is it possible to have no sensory input at all, and still be alive?

More testicle trashing fun wih BPA-
http://www.reuters.com/article/scienceNews/idUSN1513929320080415

Did you ever hear Norman Mailer complaining about the ubiquitousness of plastics? He had fully functioning cojones, and I think his instinct may have been right.

Today’s your lucky day, HHH! Did you see this post?

http://you-unplugged.com/blog/2008/03/04/what-a-wonderful-world-it-could-be/

Here’s how Helen Keller would answer your question about sensory input:

“Before my teacher came to me, I did not know that I am. I lived in a world that was no world. I cannot hope to describe adequately that unconscious, yet conscious time of nothingness … Since I had no power of thought, I did not compare one mental state with another.”

“In Canada, the Globe and Mail newspaper said the Canadian health ministry was ready to declare BPA a dangerous substance, making it the first regulatory body in the world to reach such a determination. The newspaper said the ministry could announce the decision as soon as Wednesday.”

Go Canada!

Some links to quotes about the science in the Jill Bolte Taylor video:

http://westallen.typepad.com/idealawg/2008/04/some-critical-t.html

Holy cow! I had no idea…

Thank you.